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friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

Hey #anarchist comrades, I'd like to have an open and good-faith discussion on a question I had during a meeting some time ago that anarchists present weren't able to answer to an extent either of us were satisfied with. It can be here, or in DMs or on Matrix. But the question is:

What makes authority just or unjust?

I've gotten two different answers to this. The first is that unjust authority is exploitative. This conversation ended more quickly than the other, because I agree with it entirely — and I think most statist socialists would as well. If a government and a state are not exploitative of the people, are not operating for profit, and there is a representative democracy set up that is deemed effective and representative by the population, that's the Marxist ideal for an early-to-middle-stage socialist society. But I feel that isn't what most anarchists mean?

The second answer I got was that someone who has proven expertise in a field has just authority in that field: For instance, you don't deny a doctor authority over you in the field of your medical health. My question was: If we therefore have people who have shown expertise in the areas of sociology, economics, local/national/international politics, does that not suggest that a righteous and representative government has just authority in the same way as a responsible, rational, and ethical doctor does?

The answer I got to this one was, "Yeah, but it's more idealistic than that, it doesn't get broken down into the material that way", which neither of us admittedly found satisfying, so I wonder if folks have further explanation, or other answers, to give me a better idea of modern ancom ideology. Thanks!

#anarchist
in reply to Comrade Ferret

☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭
mastodon - Link to source
☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭
• •
I'm not an anarchist, but I have an answer to the question if you'd like to hear it. The question ("What makes authority just or unjust?") is vaguely posed. "Just" to who? Depending on the group of people you're talking to, you'll get varying different honest answers regarding whatever form of authority you're referring to. 1/5
This entry was edited (3 weeks ago)
in reply to ☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭

☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭
mastodon - Link to source
☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭
• •
For example, bourgeois authority is just to the bourgeoisie but unjust to the class conscious proletarian, and proletarian authority is unjust to the bourgeois and just to the proletarian; Feudal authority was just to the aristocracy and unjust to the revolutionary bourgeoisie, and so on. Authority is not some single thing that maintains a static state of existence (i.e., is always good or always bad, just or unjust). That's not how anything in existence works. 2/5
This entry was edited (3 weeks ago)

☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭ reshared this.

in reply to ☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭

☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭
mastodon - Link to source
☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭
• •
Things are constantly changing, being beneficial in one instance and a hindrance in another. To answer your question, I'd have to know to whom your asking authority is just to, and also what form of authority you're referring to. 3/5
This entry was edited (3 weeks ago)
in reply to ☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭

☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭
mastodon - Link to source
☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭
• •
Assuming you're asking if authority is just to the working class, all you'd have to do is see if the goals and actions of the authority in question align, and to what extent, to the goals and aspirations of the working class to determine if the authority is just or unjust. 4/5
in reply to ☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭

☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭
mastodon - Link to source
☭ 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 ☭
• •
Bourgeois authority, for example, has goals and commits actions that are opposed to working class goals and aspirations, which leads to the contradictions that will inevitably lead to the abolition of capitalism, making it an unjust form of authority to the working class. 5/5

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in reply to Comrade Ferret

Comrade Ferret
friendica (DFRN) - Link to source
Comrade Ferret
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In this case, I would be asking an anarchist, in the context of an anarchist society. So, I suppose the working class in a post-capitalist society? But I don't know that they would agree that broad proletarian authority over the bourgeoisie would be acceptable, since that is essentially what "tankie" authority is: using force against societal elements that oppose the goals of the revolution.
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